Cooking Up Channel Growth with Max Joseph: AT&T’s secret ingredient for MRR

If you’ve ever lost a deal because of bad connectivity—or worse, had to answer for someone else’s $69 internet—this one’s for you. In this episode of Channel Smart, Laura Steward sits down with Max Joseph, Manager of Partner Solutions at AT&T (and yes, neighborhood nerd and culinary content creator) to dig into why AT&T’s APEX program might just be the best-kept secret in the MSP playbook.

We’re talking:

• Why 100% of your customers need internet (and how to own that part of the stack)
• What true redundancy actually means (hint: it's not two fiber lines)
• How APEX changes the game with margin control, billing ownership, and zero customer poaching
• Why thinking like a service-first provider is the key to long-term partner growth

Whether you’re building the basics or expanding your offer stack, this episode breaks down how smart connectivity strategy powers smarter MSP businesses.

We know you will find this episode enlightening and informative. To delve deeper into the world of channel strategy and gain more valuable insights, we invite you to visit our website.

For additional information, feedback, questions, or comments, don't hesitate to reach out to us at info@jsgnow.com. Tune in to Channel Smart and stay ahead in the ever-evolving world of business partnerships.

Transcript

Laura Steward (00:24)
Hi everyone and welcome to the Channel Smart Podcast. JSG is here to help you succeed one episode at a time. I'm Laura Steward. I'm the Vice President of Business Strategy and Channel Enablement at JSG. No, I am not Janet Schijns in disguise. Although I think we could probably work that out really well since we are both really big Star Wars fans. So you never know a little cosplay here in the podcast. Anyway, today we are going to be talking to you about connectivity.

partnerships and I think we're going to throw a few surprises your way. I'm excited to introduce my guest today who I've had a number of conversations with and I love his thoughts on how partnerships, customer relationships and a little Star Wars stuff goes. Although we do have a few, you know, not really on the same time board with the Star Wars timeline. Anyway, please welcome to the show Max Joseph and Max, I'm going to throw this over to you.

because I don't want to give this long involved intro to you, but you are the manager of partner solutions for AT&T with a background that I absolutely love. So what would you like to say about your background?

AT&T (01:29)
Well, thanks, Laura. I really appreciate you having me on. First of all, guess about me, I'm a nerd in disguise. I absolutely love all things Star Wars and Star Trek and could kind of wax poetic about those for a while. But really, I think we're here to talk about connectivity and AT&T. So we'll see where the discussion leads.

Laura Steward (01:47)
I love that. I love that you're so willing to just go where the conversation leads. Now, when I was an MSP, one of the biggest things that I always discovered was connectivity, whether it was internet connectivity or telephone connectivity or WAN wide area networks or local area networks, connectivity was so key to all the businesses really coming together. Have you noticed a difference today, even from

two years ago of how critical connectivity has become in the space and the channel.

AT&T (02:20)
you're absolutely right. Connectivity is crucial. And I will tell you what I tell all of my customers. 100 % of your clients need internet. 100%. There's nothing, no other option where you could say categorically, everybody needs this one product, but truly internet is it. working for AT&T, I have seen over the past years how this has become a more and more

standard base offering for any kind of customer that you're going to serve. I remember when 100 megabytes by 100 megabytes was, know, we'll never use all of that bandwidth. And now we're selling 10 gig pipes and people are going to want different kinds of access with redundancy over different networks. The way it has changed is always impressive to me. And really, I don't ever want to say it's not going to get faster or better because

A week from now, they're gonna need something else. And thankfully, I work for a company where we're able to provide that. We are growing with the MSP community and the needs.

Laura Steward (03:19)
You know, you mentioned about how the changes and growing with the needs partnerships have become almost a overused buzzword in our industry. Everybody's talking about partnerships and partnerships in the connectivity world. One of the things that has always been a problem is the connectivity portion of the equation for MSPs. There really wasn't a partnership.

It was, okay, we've got a line in there, we've got a circuit in there, we've got cellular, we've got failover. But as soon as something went wrong, it was, no, sorry, last mile. no, sorry, we can't do anything about it. no, sorry, it's gonna take a week to fix it. In this day and age, you can't take a week to fix your connectivity.

How have things changed at AT &T to make it so critical? mean, because there's players out there that claim they're better than another, but AT&T has been here forever.

AT&T (04:21)
AT&T has been here forever. It is a known entity. For better or for worse, I never walk into a room and tell people I'm working for AT&T and have them say, who is that company? So I know everybody has this image. Everybody has a history with AT&T. It is the foundational element for so many MSPs, for businesses, for homes all over the world. What I can say as far as partnerships are concerned is

Laura Steward (04:31)
Great.

AT&T (04:48)
the AT&T Partner Exchange, the APEX program, is a relatively new organization. It's not one that a lot of people know about, and it's really a word-of-mouth program. So the fact that we're here talking about it, I think, is going to come as kind of an epiphany to a lot of solution providers around the world. The AT&T Partner Exchange, we're going to call it APEX moving forward because it's kind of a mouthful otherwise.

Laura Steward (05:13)
So much

better.

AT&T (05:14)
Yeah, it is made to pair with you the MSP at the heart of the relationship. We are not here to take your customers from you or sell around you. It's really a relationship with you. You are that kind of trusted advisor to your end user. We are here to service you. We are here to help you. We can come help pitch to customers for you.

Or we can just sit in the back, whatever makes the most sense for you and your business. So everybody may be used to kind of the global AT&T or the direct side or other partnerships that want a hand in that end user relationship. But the APEX program is not like that. are 100 % here to support you as much or as little as you decide you need. And that partnership really starts to show itself

when we have this huge amount of expertise that we can lend to your MSP to help you build credibility with your customers, to help you service them from start to finish, from the very foundational internet connectivity all the way through the stack to security. Leaning on that partnership is really what makes the APEX program so unique.

Laura Steward (06:28)
It does sound so different than what MSPs are used you know, having been an MSP myself across multiple states, made it very difficult sometimes to have uniform access to things. AT&T being so global makes it a little bit easier to do that. And your background before you started with AT&T, when you first started out in your career, was with the Ritz-Carlton, correct?

AT&T (06:51)
That's right, absolutely.

Laura Steward (06:53)
And the Ritz-Carlton very much has this philosophy of every guest being a partner in the success of the relationship and every employee being critical to the success How do you think that that experience has helped you as you've grown in your own self and in the business world of tech? Because it's so radically different often in tech to like

Ritz Carlton.

AT&T (07:18)
Well, yeah, you know, it's absolutely a formative part of my professional career. I still have the credo card in my wallet that outlines all of the service basics for the company. It is a service first organization. And everybody knows that when they go there, they're going to have customized personalized service. And that is actually exactly the way that we model the relationships in the APEX program. Every solution provider

is going to have an account team that kind of sits on top of them. So a channel manager, kind of that one throat to choke if they need anything, they'll also have a technical engineering overlay. So if you had a more complicated solution that you needed help with, you'd have somebody there to assist you. And then you have a mobility overlay as well. So you have kind of this triangle of support that is there to make sure that you are not just...

you know, quoting and selling and moving on, they are truly there to support you and give you a customized, personalized experience that can really solve any connectivity problem you have. We are truly invested in making your experience through the APEX program a positive one. And we feel like if we are able to invest in you, you can then...

move and invest in your customers even more. So it's a cycle. The more that we can give you that attention, the more attention you're then able to pass on to your customers.

Laura Steward (08:40)
It sounds like you're invested in this for the long term then.

AT&T (08:43)
Yes, we are not going anywhere. The APEX program is, like I said, a relatively new program. But leadership at AT&T has been very clear. The future of AT&T is in the channel. We are invested in our partners, and we are here to help them grow and help them serve their end users.

Laura Steward (09:01)
And I know some MSPs have heard that before, but from all the investigating I've done, really feel like you especially are very, very committed to making sure that it's a clean slate. going forward and we were investing in, in the MSP channel.

AT&T (09:16)
Yeah, no,

you're spot on. I know a lot of people have had interactions with other carriers before, have had interactions with AT&T before. There are many different ways to do business with AT&T. But for the MSPs and MSSP, the APEX program, the resale channel is specifically tailored to help them succeed.

So if you've had an experience elsewhere in the organization before, I encourage you to reach out to us and give the APEX program a try because the things that make it special are specifically tailored to our MSP community. That triangle of support, our marketing development funds, we have a specific pool of funds that our partners can use to offset costs that they experience every day, whether it be marketing as a service or...

billing and tax or even API integration. We have all of these tools that fit their needs uniquely that maybe they didn't experience in different parts of the organization or with different partners. So if you have had an experience like that, I encourage you to spend some time and take a look at the APEX program and how it can fit your unique needs.

Laura Steward (10:26)
You know, I'm listening to the whole idea of unique needs and fitting in the triangle, right? And I keep thinking of your YouTube cooking channel that you personally have and conversations we've had about cooking. And yes, there's some really cool things around cooking. And the idea that kept coming to my mind is everybody has a kitchen, right? I mean, even if you live in New York City or some other

AT&T (10:51)
be

a small one then, but yes.

Laura Steward (10:52)
a small one, but you still have

some sort of kitchen. There's a refrigerator of some sort. There is some kind of oven, even if it's a tabletop one, and there's a sink to provide you water. And then as perhaps your needs or growth needs change, you may add a vent hood that vents outside. You may add some customized skillet pans.

What I hear when you're talking about the new AT&T Apex program is it grows with you. And I don't know what your favorite recipe is, and I know our listeners would love, probably love to hear it, I know I would, but there's so many different ways to make a recipe. Are there in your mind's eye so many different ways to think about connectivity?

AT&T (11:33)
Yes, well, let's use that kitchen analogy. Let's go with that. And right now I'm cooking a lot of tarte de flette. Right now my French friends will know exactly what it is. Anything with potatoes and cheese are delicious. But using that kitchen metaphor, you can start with the most basic set of kitchen utensils and you're going to get a lot done. And as you start to develop your portfolio, as you start to develop your recipes, you're going to want more and more specialized tools.

that our program is very similar. You can come into the Apex program and you can sell just fiber internet. And that is great. We would love for you to do that. We are here 100 % for you. But maybe over time, you start to expand your recipe book and you say, you know what? I now need some redundancy or failover. Let's throw a 5G internet backup on my services.

Let's start doing some IoT integration. Maybe you don't have a full suite of security services. AT&T APEX program has our dynamic defense product, which is an over the top security system. So you could sell the entire suite of products if you are really advanced and have a use for everything. Or if you want to just keep it with just internet connectivity, great, we have that option for you too. You are not obligated to...

to be a five-star chef right away. You can come with us and kind of be a Food Network Chef to begin with and learn as you go. We have resources and tools and there are training seminars for you. So we are invested in teaching you and helping you grow your business at your own pace.

Laura Steward (13:07)
I love that. And I had this vision of the bear, the TV show, The Bear, and how they first started out with that kitchen and the way it was, and then how they moved it to a Michelin starred restaurant and how everything seemed to get smoother because everybody was, you like you understood, you had all the training and then, right.

AT&T (13:12)
Yes.

Right, everybody has their spot in the line, right?

Laura Steward (13:30)
And I feel like this is a part of it. And I love that you also mentioned, Max, the failover. Let's talk about failover. It's like in a kitchen, you want to have enough ingredients in case you drop the eggs on the ground. You want to make sure you have more eggs hanging out in the refrigerator, right? Using that scenario.

How do you address that for somebody who's not even thinking about failover? To me, it's so critical. I lost my cell phones one day and my landline went too.

AT&T (14:00)
Yeah, no, mean, failover is incredibly important. And I think a lot of people have, well, they obviously have different opinions of it. But their customers are going to ask them, hey, I want some kind of redundancy, right? And so a lot of our partners will go and get a circuit from someone else and a circuit from AT&T, and they'll plug it into the office. And they'll say, great, you now have two internet connections. This is redundancy. And for me, I say, wait, wait, wait, that's not redundancy. If a backhoe comes and cuts the fiber line,

Laura Steward (14:27)
It's

AT&T (14:27)
They're going to cut the blue one, the red one, the pink one, they don't care who they're going to cut it. Redundancy is when you have multiple forms of transport into your location. So that's where a 5G internet backup makes a lot of sense. So if that fiber line does get cut, you still have cell service to your location. So you do have that option for failover. That's really in my mind what I hear when I hear redundancy.

Depending on what our solution providers need, we have multiple different flavors of 5G backup. Maybe they need just something by the gigabyte. Well, we have plans that can help them with that, very low use cases. Maybe they want a true failover that doesn't have a limit on anything. We have options for that that will go on top of their internet circuit. Maybe some of their customers can't get to fiber internet connectivity and satellite just doesn't.

cut it and they can't get involved with any other services. Well, great. We could look at a fixed wireless back or fixed wireless broadband solution for them like AT&T Internet Air. And that's a great product to put in people's location where maybe traditional wireline connectivity is not an option for them. So depending on what their specific need is, we have multiple different solutions for you. Like we said with the kitchen, I mean, we're here to cook with you. We're here to

help meet you where you are and create custom solutions for those needs.

Laura Steward (15:52)
You know, I was thinking about what you said about satellite and different circuits and everything. And when Hurricane Milton came through here in Florida, we had, I don't know, something like 50 some odd tornadoes spun up and circuits went down every which way possible because they were just gone. You know, North Carolina and, you know, the Midwest, all those other places having that idea of

there's a completely different way to go in it is really helpful, plus the backup.

AT&T (16:20)
It's incredibly

important. And when you kind of work your way and think through it, you're like, wait, guess, yeah, the fiber line cutting cat machine doesn't discriminate. That makes sense.

Laura Steward (16:32)
No,

it does not because I did have somebody at one of my offices once a backhoe dig, dig up everything they like.

AT&T (16:40)
Yeah, well, be careful.

You'll quickly become the most popular person on the street, because when the neighborhood goes out, everybody's going to want your Wi-Fi password, because you'll be the only one working. ⁓

Laura Steward (16:46)
Exactly,

because I've got redundancy. All right. Let's go for something a little bit different right now this moment, because we've been talking about cooking, we've been talking about connectivity and failover. From your experiences working with partners, what is the stumbling block that you've seen they need to overcome to help them succeed further as considered to be even a

AT&T (16:51)
There!

Laura Steward (17:12)
bigger trusted advisor inside their businesses. It doesn't have to do with connectivity or anything, just from your experiences doing what you do.

AT&T (17:19)
Yeah,

that's a great question. So, where I tend to see a lot of our solution providers kind of struggle with is they hold themselves to an incredibly high standard. You want to be the best in class, MSSP, your region. You want the customers to think of you first. And so, you say, you know what, I am holding myself to this standard way up here.

The difficulty comes when your end user is using some asymmetric copper connectivity, or you let them just buy whatever internet service they want, or create their own solution, and you're asked to come in and kind of fix things around. And that's really hard, because you don't want to tell the customer no, but also you're kind of held hostage to...

whatever they have currently in place. And so what I kind of encourage my solution provider customers to do is say, look, if you're going to go into a new customer, you want full command and control of that entire product. And that starts with the internet and goes all the way to whatever the end uses for their needs. It doesn't really make sense if you're holding yourself to this high service standard, but the weak

link in the chain is the internet that they got for $69 on TV special. You just end up becoming the break fix guy running out there every time that something happens. Because like I said at the very beginning, 100 % of your customers need internet. So you know they're getting it from somewhere, they might as well get it from you. And then that way you can create the correct solution for them, a dedicated fiber solution with

99.99 % uptime and SLAs for performance. That way, you know the product that you're offering your customers is the same quality level that you expect, that you want to give them, that you're not running out just to kind of take care of every little problem because they've chosen a product that's not right for their needs.

Laura Steward (19:17)
That made me think of like so many different things. I was applying it back to your real-time experience. Yeah, we have some time, but you you've had experience in the eyeglass industry and the hospitality industry and tech sales of several different companies. And you know, you've been with AT&T for a long time and you are the neighborhood nerd, right?

AT&T (19:24)
We've got time, we can go. Yeah.

I am. All of my friends come to me for tech advice.

Laura Steward (19:42)
I was always called the geek, but I like nerd too. It worked. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So as a nerd, what do you think is, how do you think AI might be heading into connectivity and impacting it or not impacting

AT&T (19:44)
that's why we get along I suppose. Yeah, they're great.

That's a great question. I don't think I've been asked that before. Well, fundamentally, we know that AI rests in data centers offsite somewhere else. AI has to get to your customer, right? It doesn't just, nobody has a local language model on their phone. It's just not something that happens. Maybe one day I'll be eating my words, but right now it is such a computational intensive

process that it has to be located offsite. If AI is going to be helpful to our users, it has to be something that is delivered near instantaneously with latency measured in single microseconds. That's where you really need a fiber optic connection or something like a 5G connection where that latency is just blazing fast. That's how AI becomes useful.

how it could be used in a day-to-day use case for AT&T. I'd tell our solution providers to go put in a region, a zip code, an area code, and they should be able to pull up AT&T service in there. Is this in AT&T's 21-state footprint? If it is, chances are we're the leg. Chances are we have the ability to connect to their customers. If that's not an option,

That's when you start to think about things like the fixed wireless broadband, so that you could replace that service with something that is fast enough to make AI useful for our customers.

Laura Steward (21:19)
And that last mile you talked about also means if AT&T controls the entire thing, you don't have the finger pointing of, no, it's this provider has to handle that. We can't do this. But you have options. I love that. Keep it simple. Yeah, definitely. That was a really well-thought out answer considering you've said nobody has ever asked you that question before.

AT&T (21:31)
Yeah, keep it all on network and keep it simple.

Well, I mean, it's something that's constantly evolving. So if I'm wrong in a week from now, you can't hold me responsible for it.

Laura Steward (21:49)
Or you can just blame it on AI and AI made a mistake. All right, Max, any last thoughts you want to share besides what is on your LinkedIn bio, which is the K2SO debate, which is the best droid out there?

AT&T (21:51)
Yeah, I just feel like it changed. I was right. Yeah, I was right when I recorded this.

Yeah, he's the best Star Wars droid. You know, I tell my customers the Apex program is kind of like the black card of the programs here at AT&T. Like you don't know about it unless you know about it. We don't do a very good job of advertising this program out. So it's not a surprise that a lot of our solution providers are probably hearing about us for the very first time. This program is fundamentally a resale program and

you are at the heart of it. We are here to do business with you. We are here to support you. We can get as involved or as, you know, in the background as the solution provider wants. But if they have had experiences with other partners and other areas of the business, I encourage them to come look at us because we are uniquely suited to offer our partners discounts on services to market.

They get to pick their own margins. They own the billing tax and tier one support to your customers. Nothing says AT&T. Your end users are never going to get a bill from us. So, all of these things kind of come together to create a very unique ecosystem that is specifically tailored to making our solution providers successful.

Laura Steward (23:15)
That's great. And they can find you out on LinkedIn and the APEX program, all of that.

AT&T (23:17)
LinkedIn? ⁓

That's right. Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on YouTube, all over the place. The cooking show and AT&T Partner Exchange has its own videos on YouTube. So we have lots of options to integrate with us. If anybody's interested, it's a very simple Google search, just AT&T Resale Program or AT&T Partner Exchange.

Laura Steward (23:24)
Your cooking channel.

AT&T (23:41)
We have all the information about the program there, the products that we sell, and there's also the link to apply. And then that application will come to me and we'll be talking on the phone soon.

Laura Steward (23:51)
That's awesome. Thank you so much for being here, Max, and for sharing your wisdom.

AT&T (23:55)
Laura, thanks so much. really appreciate it.

Laura Steward (23:56)
All right, everyone, thanks for joining us today. And remember, being Channel Smart means staying ahead in the ever-evolving world of business partnerships. And perhaps you'll consider joining the APEX program. And have a great day, everyone.

AT&T (24:08)
Cheers.